Posts by 2escaped lifers

7

Christianity, Capitalism, and Conquers

by forgetmenot in

jw
friends

why is it that many of the people trying to take over the world (now and then) seem to be christians and promoters of capitalism?

why does the united states (a predominantly christian country) fear islam so much when for centuries christians have been terrorizing most of the world?

does christianity promote violence by being a 'house on a hill'?

2escaped lifers

Hi,

Care to give some examples of all these historical would-be world conquerors who were Christian Capitalists?

Not being sarcastic, I'm seriously curious about whom you're referring to.

Thanks,

Brandon

30

Home school

by Globetrotter in

my son told me the other day that he and his sister are just about the only kids at the kh their age that go to public/private schools.

almost all the other kids are home-schooled.

i was rather shocked.

We currently homeschool our two boys, both of whom were invited into the gifted programs when they were in the public school system. Our two main reasons for homeschooling them were that (1) my work situation was causing us to move rather often there for a while, and we thought it unfair for the boys to be bounced around different schools during the same school year, and (2) We wanted to give them the opportunity to learn at their own pace, as rapidly as they could. No religious reasons involved, as we are now ex-JW's.

They are both bright, and well adjusted in social settings. They have quite a few friends in the neighborhood, some homeschooled and some in public school. Next year (school year) we will be enrolling them in some of the extra curricular activies and sports that the school systems where we live have opened up to homeschoolers to participate in.

Overall we enjoy having the children with us more, and they enjoy the more flexible schedule. We fully intend both to go to college, and take advantage of whatever scholarships are available.

However, while we were still JW's, many in surrounding congregations were homeschooling their children, with of course no future plans of additional education beyond their high school diploma or GED. Many weren't even using decent curriculums, and many counted field service, playgroud trips, camping trips, etc., as school time or school field trip time. Very pitiful education for many of these, and it showed in their general conversation and their basic understanding (or lack thereof) of the world around them.

As one poster to this thread has already alluded to, I wouldn't suggest trying to homeschool your children unless you have the time, energy, and willpower to make them stick to the lessons (and to stick to it yourself). Also would suggest enrolling in some of the National accredited homeschooling programs with good curriculums.

Anyhow, my 2cents...

Best regards all,

Brandon Bartlett

28

Hi....I am new

by fusion1975 in

jw
friends

i have lurked for quite awhile (about 9 months) and just wanted to finally log on and get my first post.

i was raised in the truth.

i don't know how often i will get to post....i have a worldly mate and currently i am unable to post from home.

2escaped lifers

Hiya!! Welcome. As you know from lurking, this is a great place to find out stuff and just to chat with people who have been through it also, something no one else can identify with because it's , well, kinda bizarre. Anyway, welcome again!!!! Brandon and Stephanie

28

New User Hi Everyone

by jonnydangerous in

jw
friends

kinda new to the forums, stumbled across this discussion board whilst researching the wt involvement with the un as an ngo, laughed my head off when i found out they got booted cuz everyone gave em a bad rap (serv's em right) http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=311102&categoryid=3459&threadid=1131916&highlight_key=y&keyword1=ngo.

anyway, been a "baptized" jw since 13 at the cow palace (now 20).... been a "questioning" jw since a few months after my "baptism".... still hang around the jw's... heck i was brought up as one from a tot and all of my good friends are jw's... even my girlfriend is a jw..... sigh... i've told her my stance... i'm way more liberal when it comes to religion and spirituality than i was taught to be, and bless the creator, she still loves me.

but anyway i'm at a continuing crossroads, as far as staying or leaving.... i shan't be in this state of mind for much longer but i'm just trying to get good reasons to pack the bags.... if anyone has some "meat" for me to sink my teeth into pass it my way.. haha, wow i'm spilling my guts and no one even knows me yet lol.

2escaped lifers

Hey, Jonny!! Welcome!!! My husband and I left "officially" this year . You won't lack for information here either directly or by way of links to some shocking behind the scenes activities and also simply their own publications' BS. And believe me, there is plenty of it once you start examining it closely, and checking it against actual events as documented secularly. Do lots of research, question EVERYTHING you have ever thought to be true about them and their teachings, read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz and go to the Silent Lambs website, then you'll have an idea as to why so many people are SOOO disgusted with this organization and have landed here among friends. Use this board either silently or actively for any questions and support. Again, WELCOME!!!!!!!!!

22

Choosing another religion?

by asleif_dufansdottir in

jw
friends

a discussion on another thread made me wonder about what happens when we finally come to the conclusion that the society is full of sh*t.

did you take some time to 'get your religious bearings' before contemplating joining another religion?

or, was it a strong religious belief that brought you out of the jws?

2escaped lifers

I was raised a JW, from birth. Took me 30 years to come to the conclusion that the WTS was full of S***. After the last 2-3 years of soul-searching and research, which lead to my departure from the WTS, I am now a very strong agnostic, leaning towards athiest.

Brandon

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

Guest77 - Yeah, you are right that I sort of gave them some "ammunition" by a few sentences in the letter. Oh well.... It doesn't really matter though, we're going to be shunned anyway, whatever they do.

cruzanheart -

You rock, guys. If you want to really get under the elders' skin, send copies of the letter to everyone in the congregation that you can think of. That way they can't make a simple statement like "they disassociated themselves" because everyone will know what REALLY was said in your letter.

We've considered this, and may still do it. But more than likely we'll write a seperate letter to our old friends.

Elsewhere and Simplesally - Interesting thought!!! Lets see, what mischief can I make for them with that one...hmmmm?

Everyone - Thanks so much for your kind comments and support!!!

Best regards,

Brandon Bartlett

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

Howdy,

Nope, don't care about being DA'd or DF'd, as both sets of parents (mine and my wife's) have already said they will shun us, whether judicial action is taken or not.

But there's no reason to make it easy on them, is there....?

Brandon

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

LMAO!!!! Your right, not being able to drink....THAT's the problem!

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

Sorry for breaking this message into three pieces, but couldn't seem to get the letter to "paste" into the first message properly.

Talked to my dad Monday night (while delivering to him Albertville's copy of the letter ) and asked him if all of this would affect our working relationship too. See, he is a draftsman that does work for me sometimes at my job, a Project Manager for a construction company. He said, "of course". He would finish up what contracts he was working on currently, but would not accept any further work from us (me). Oh well, his loss....

Talked to my Mom this morning. She was lamenting the fact that we were breaking their hearts, because we were so "viciously angry", "attacking" and "threatening" and "fighting against" Jehovah's Organization. I pressed her for what on earth she was talking about, since she had never used these terms before, and finally found out that dad had told her about the letter. I thought this judicial stuff was supposed to be confidential!?!?!?!?

Anyway, thanks to all of you for caring and listening.

Best regards,

Brandon Bartlett

28

Just lost our parents... Part 2

by 2escaped lifers in

jw
friends

for part 1, see : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/62447/1.ashx .

well, my dad did his "elder" duty and called the elders in whose territory we now live.

two of them came by to see us this past saturday morning.

2escaped lifers

December 6, 2003

Brandon and Stephanie Bartlett

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Body of Elders

Scottsboro Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses

Dear Sirs:

This letter is in response to the visit Chris Rodgers and Bob Hanford paid to our home this morning. First, let me make clear that this is NOT a letter of Disassociation. We simply feel that certain issues discussed briefly this morning need some clarification, and that this would best be accomplished in writing.

As you are well aware, we have lived in the Scottsboro Congregation?s territory for more than a year now. This has been common knowledge, especially since our family has been so well known to the majority of the members of the Scottsboro Congregation for so many years. I?ve had friends in your congregation since my early teens, I?ve worked with many of you at the Quick Build projects for two decades, and I have even given Public Talks at your Hall.

Therefore, given the depth of our past relationship, both spiritual and personal, we assumed when we first moved to town that it would not be long before we received a ?shepherding call?, or at least a ?welcome? visit. Sadly, all we have received to date is the visit this morning, which, as Chris so plainly put it, was ?not to change our minds? about how we feel now about the ?Organization?, but to ask us to write a letter of Disassociation. In addition to this primary objective, however, it was evident by the number and type of questions we were asked by these two ?brothers?, that there was a secondary objective as well. This was to ascertain if we had been involved in any ?wrongdoing? which might involve a ?Disfellowshipping? offense.

The nature of the ?questioning? was more like two police officers questioning criminal suspects, who don?t know they are suspects yet. The questions were slyly worded and very leading, though masked in a cordial conversational tone.

THIS WAS, AND IS, VERY OFFENSIVE TO US. If you wanted to know if we had done anything of a nature worthy of ?Disfellowshipping?, all you had to do was ask clearly. We were completely honest and forthright with all of our answers, and we would have answered these questions truthfully as well. The honest truth is that we are the same people as before, with the same moral and ethical standards as we?ve always had. We don?t need you or an ?Organization? to tell us that certain things are just plain wrong in a civilized human society. Just because we don?t attend the Kingdom Hall anymore doesn?t mean that we are now going to dive into a ?debauched? life of adultery, sex orgies, drunken revelries, and drug addiction or crime.

We are very offended because, first, you ignore us when we move to town and make no effort to ?help? us spiritually. Then, secondly, you send these two ?brothers? to our house to find evidence of ?wrongdoing? on which you could accuse us and then ?disfellowship? us. All of this, simply because we were honest in telling our parents, and now you, that we simply no longer believe Jehovah?s Witnesses have ?THE TRUTH?. Are you that afraid of us, just because we disagree with you?

Your conduct, as a body and as individuals, is less than admirable, and belies your claim to be truly loving, caring, and compassionate ?shepherds? of the flock. Yet, this no longer surprises us, for we have seen and experienced so much hypocrisy in this ?Organization? over the years. It only saddens us now, that you are so indoctrinated that you can?t distinguish sincerity from hypocrisy any longer, nor can you tolerate any ?independent thinking? among your members. ?Whatever happened to exercising one?s ?Bible Trained Christian Conscience? in making decisions, rather than policed conformance to the ?Governing Body?s? current and latest interpretation of scripture? or else face ?cutting off?, or your own independently coined word, ?disfellowshiping? (Interestingly, as you know, the words ?disfellowship? and ?disassociate? do not even appear in the Bible, much like the word ?Trinity?).

Another point we wish to make very clear is this: Bxxxxx Xxxxxxxx had nothing to do with our thought processes or decisions about our beliefs. I only bring this up because Chris asked us, rather out of the conversation?s context, if we had spoken with Bxxxx lately. Of course, I answered that I had just recently contacted Bxxxx again, because I had. But this contact was some time after we had already made our decisions about changing our beliefs. Until my brief contact with Bxxxx a couple weeks ago, just to catch up with an old friend and see how he was doing, I had not spoken with him in about two years. SO, AGAIN, XXXXX XXXXXXXX HAS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR VIEWS ABOUT JEHOVAH?S WITNESSES. As a matter of fact, he was quite shocked to learn about our current views. So, please, if you have any common decency left in you at all, do not use any of this as ?ammunition? against Bxxxxx. He knows nothing of what we?ve been through or what we believe now and why, other than our brief ?catch up? conversation and visit a couple weeks ago.

Please pay very careful attention to the following:

As you have no evidence of any ?disfellowshipable? activity on our part (because there is none), YOU WILL NOT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE ANYTHING DERROGATORY ABOUT ANY OF US, AT ANY CONGREGATION MEETING AT ANY KINGDOM HALL.

We will not allow our reputation in the community in general to be slandered in any way by you. Since the current instructions on announcing a disfellowshipping require that you NOT announce the nature of the offense, any announcement about us would naturally fuel the ?rumor mill? and cause others, both within the congregation and without, to speculate about what immoral or ?unrighteous? conduct had led to our being expelled from the congregation. As you well know, your only accusation against us is that we simply no longer believe the same as you do.

I really hate to have to take these steps, for I bear no malice against any of you personally, but I feel I must make the following clear to you as well, in order to protect our reputation in the community:

IF YOU DO MAKE ANY DERROGATORY ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT US, AT ALL, WE WILL SUE THE BODY OF ELDERS AS A GROUP, AND EACH OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY, FOR LIBEL AND SLANDER.

We also have no intention of writing an official letter of ?disassociation?. Once we uncovered the truth behind ?The Truth?, namely that it is just not true, we realized that in essence our baptisms were meaningless, therefore we view them as null and void. You have no authority over us, nor do we have any obligation to conform to your man-made rules and regulations.

In conclusion, we would like to reiterate that we bear no ill will towards any of you, and our lives and our home will always be open to you. If you, or individual members of the congregation, decide to shun us, understand that it will be entirely one-sided shunning. We will always appreciate and honor the friendships that we made while being Jehovah?s Witnesses, as we view many of you as friends. We love you, and will always be there for you, with a smile, a warm greeting, or assistance ? whatever is required.

One last item ? Please direct all future correspondence on these matters to us in writing. No phone calls or visits, please.

Cordially,

Brandon and Stephanie Bartlett

cc: Body of Elders ? Albertville Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses

Bxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx (simply out of courtesy because he is mentioned)

************************************END OF LETTER